Talk: Metatron

I am know this will piss some off, but someone has to ask this. Yes, Michael is the oldest brother of the four Archangels as well as the oldest Archangel. But with how Cas said that he took record of creation when it was being formed and it got me thinking. Has Michael ever been confirmed as the oldest angel or was that thought up as he is was until Metraton was said to exist was the oldest to date angel? If so, it could still not condrick what Death said, about the Levianthans. As if Metraton is older than Michael it just means that Michael wasn't the first angel and just the first Archangel which is odd, give how Eric Kriple made the Archangels. Also, when creation was being formed. Now, that could mean, all of creation aka the universe both physical and ethereal realms of existance or creation like lets say Earth when the Earth was being formed. After Lucifer did say that the Earth was the last masterpiece of God, and if that is what Cas meant it just adds to what Death said too be true. But as Cas wasn't specific on the detail like when and if creation meant all of creation or at a specific event it just sepeculation. I just thought that is might be what Cas meant.: The Twilight of Your Despair 02:37, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Plot-holes, plot-holes! Leviathans older than Archangels, fine, but now possibly Metatron! he did say Metatron "dictated while creation was being formed". -- ImperiexSeed, 10:51 PM, May 15th 2012

The big bang, the moment of creation, the origins of time etc when refering to all of creation being formed. But my question is it more realistic that he meant the creation of the Earth and not all of the universe. As then it wouldn't condrtick what Death said about the Levianthans being older than angels.: The Twilight of Your Despair 03:17, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, yeah. Now that you mention it like that, I'm pretty sure he meant the creation forming of the Earth. Thus, Michael is still order. -- ImperiexSeed, 11:19 PM, May 15th 2012

It is now revealed that he was an ordinary angel who got job he "wasn't created for" - or at least it seemed to other angels (and him as well) that way, since God must've known what he will use him for. The "when creation was being formed" most probably means the creation after the angels and Heaven - that means Earth, probably with all it's physical realm, maybe Hell (Purgatory was created before angels because God put Leviathans there before he created angels) and maybe even Earths of other dimensions - like the one from The French Mistake. So the Creation was being formed, but Metatron was writing not about the creation that was taking it's form, but about creation that already existed (Leviathans and Angels) or would exists (Demons - Lucifer created Lilith much later as she was created from a human soul and humans weren't evolved from apes yet). -- 78.128.181.75 01:30, May 4, 2013 (UTC)

According to jewish lore, Metatron is the greatest angel in heaven and all of creation, so its possible the show might go down this route and introduce metatron as the oldest and strongest archangel, even above the archangel michael. I think a clue given was in the episode description of the episode reading is fundamental. The description mentions archangel involvement, yet none appeared, but they did mention metatron. Coincidence? You tell me.A.J AL 11:49, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

It should probably be noted at this point that in jewish tradition "the" Metatron isn't an angel, but rather a lesser YHVH (GOD) (it could be interpreted that he is one of the Chayot Hakodesh but it is difficult to tell for sure based on the text given). In Christian tradition he is an angel though he is not an "archangel" but rather one of the 2 Seraphim (the other is Seraphiel). As for the subject of who is older, I'm gonna side with those saying it was the Metatron, mostly because I count the leviathans as part of creation and if the Metatron wrote down creation as it was being created, then he must have come first. Either way I certainly hope he shows up later in the series as he'd be a true blue bad ass.Mad Man Moody

Metatron is just a glorified scribe. Michael is THE Ultimate Warrior. He can't be stronger, more powerful than Michael. It would make no sense. It's not in his nature or role considering the fact that he's just God's personal secretary.John432 15:02, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

Took his life?

I'm not sure that's what was meant. I thought it just meant Metatron and God left heaven, not Metatron committing suicide. FTWinchester (talk) 16:48, November 15, 2012 (UTC)

Here's something that I don't get, Anna said that only four Angels have seen God, this was presumed to be the four Archangels. Now with Metatron in the mix, and he has obviously seen God since he was writing the Word of God tablets for it, doesn't that mean that one of the Archangels hasn't seem God? I wonder if they're going to retcon that or if they're even going to go into it.

PS, to the who's stronger thing. In the religous book that actually mentions Metatron (the Talmud I believe), Metatron was actually confused with being a second God, whereas Michael has always been merely an Angel, and Archangel, but still just an AngelSamcarter34 (talk) 02:46, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

Technically speaking, Metatron did not have to. He just have to 'hear' God talking about creation. Maybe they will clarify Metatron's status later on, he really sounds and feels like that bastard or step-brother that the whole family doesn't like to talk about. FTWinchester (talk) 14:32, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

It could be that Anna did not know about Metatron since Metatron Left heaven with God and its possible she never got to meet him. So its easy to see how she could be wrong about how many angels have seen God. Its possible Castiel only knew about him because he was upgraded into a seraph which came with a power upgrade and likely a knowledge upgrade as well. I think it is also possible Metatron is older and stronger than Michael. He was there when creation was being formed, so he had to already be there when Michael was created. Its already confirmed that Metatron is an archangel. and I dont think the episode insinuated metaron killed himself. Only that he was leaving.99.74.197.140 23:43, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

This might help with understanding Metatron and Michael as if whom is older. I think now its somewhat confirms that Metatron doesn't predate Leviathans. Let me explain, yes Castiel's Quote conflicts with Death's quote about Leviathans predating Angels. But think of this Michael is canon confirmed the oldest of the Archangels by in series and by Eric Kriple and the Leviathans predate even him. So if Metatron is an Archangel that he is younger than Michael thus younger than Leviathans. Now I will say it's more of theory than anything. But Kevin does say Metatron was an Archangel.

I am open to that Metatron might be a unique single kind of Archangel, if that is a way for him to not be part of the other four Michael, Lucifer, Raphael and Gabriel. But, I am not saying articles should be edited but it makes sense.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 00:04, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

I believe that they probably retconned the whole "Michael is the oldest angel" when they introduced Metatron. Its not inconceivable seeing as retconns are common when new writers take over. So I believe it WAS official that Michael was the oldest, but not anymore after the retconn. Erik Kripke probably never planned to bringing in Metatron into the superverse.99.74.197.140 00:58, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

That is true very true, and I forgot to add that. But as Eric Kriple is the original maker of the series offical stated it. Until in the series that Metatron is said to be older than Michael still should be classified as the oldest one, as it's a completely confirmed fact. And not as vague as Metatron is just an Archangel and whether or not he is older, younger, the same age, or stronger, weaker, or the same strength as Michael. My previous edit was to make sense IF Metatron is to be revealed as a younger Archangel.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 01:06, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

Possibly, but at this point in the series, I don't see how Metatron can be retconned as the eldest archangel without being contradictive. In regards to what you said, Twlight Despair 5, I agree Michael should be maintained as the oldest until offically confirmed as otherwise as we would be only grasping at straws at this time. In addition, if Metratron is indeed the oldest archangel than it stands to reason God created him first to write down the Word of God as (the unspecified) creation was being formed which could have begun with the archangels ' own creation. 108.247.158.94 01:30, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

It is possible that Metatron left early on, so the angels had no recollection of the unknown eldest brother they had, and thought of Michael as the oldest. That seems to be the easiest way to retcon the archangel kindred.

An interesting question is from where did he 'leave'? Heaven? The entire timeline? The entire universe and into another dimension (the angels did this in the alternate timeline of 2014)? FTWinchester (talk) 04:18, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

The problem with that scenario is Sam and Dean intially learn of Metatron from Castiel, so it can't be retconned that other angels have no recollection of him as being the unknown eldest archangel as you suggested, seeing as if Cas knows who Metatron is than likely so do the rest of the angels.108.247.158.94 05:07, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

Well, Castiel is special I think. Its possible that God gave him more knowledge as well as more power after bringing him back from the dead. Which could explain why he knew about metatron and other angels did not. Just guessing though.99.74.197.140 20:39, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

My only response to your suggestion of God giving Cas more knowledge (including the existense of Metatron) is that it sounds too contrived for an attempt to retcon Metatron as a fifth archangel who is generally unknown to the angels. 108.247.151.188 00:05, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

What if he was ascended into one, not unlike how Castiel was ascended to be a Seraph? FTWinchester (talk) 21:13, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

FTWinchester, I like that idea of Metatron being a promoted angel. Obviously, the biblical concept of him formerly being Enoch is impossible. But it doesn't seem to far-fetched to say  that God promoted him to being an Archangel. SilverRain (talk) 03:51, November 28, 2012 (UTC)

Hold, its not necessary to assume this is a recon, its never been directly stated that Metaron is older than Michael(or even properly implied) just because he wrote about Leviathans, doesn't mean he's as old as them, he was only taking down Gods words, I mean people write books about history now. I mean I know Castiel said during creation, but it strikes me there have been a lot of creations, there was the creation of the universe, the creation of Heaven, the creation of the Leviathans, the Creation of Purgatory, the Creation of Angels etc. Its never specifically stated that he ment the creation of the Leviathans, in fact being an Angel, I think its more likely he was refering to creation of angels (not Archangels, just ordinary angels). Creation's to broad to make assumtions, and most of this is simply asumentions, the fact he wasn't mentioned up until now, is simply he was never relevent to the situation, besides if he did leg it, he may have been regared as a tratior by his family, and thats why he hasn't been brought up till now, my point is there is to much speculation, we don't have any real facts at the moment. General MGD 109 (talk) 19:26, November 28, 2012 (UTC)

First off, we DO have some facts on the Archangel - his name, his Angelic occupation, etc. Also, I must say, it's pretty clear that in "Reading is Fundamental", Castiel was referencing the forming of the Earth. But I do agree, we don't possess much information on him and we don't know what happened to him. -- ImperiexSeed, 3:59 PM, November 28th 2012

Chill. We're just thinking of theories on how they could possibly retcon the archangels if they do decide that Metatron is the eldest. FTWinchester (talk) 17:41, November 29, 2012 (UTC)

Metatron and his Master

Alright, this didn't need to be a problem, but now it has turned into one. To the users who keep undoing my edit of changing "master" to "Master" need to stop. The Judeo-Christian God - God in Supernatural - is always, ALWAYS, referred to with proper nouns. Be it Him, He, God, Lord, even You. Master included. And as far as I understand, this Wiki abides by that idiom when referring to God. Unless inconsistency is desired, on Metatron's page, "master" must be "Master". It is not incorrect grammar. It isn't unnecessary capitalization. It's proper. If it isn't to remain "Master", then all instances of God-related proper nouns (He, Him, etc) on this Wiki need to be made lower case. Otherwise, stop undoing "master" to "Master". SilverRain (talk) 01:38, November 30, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, I agree - God, being who he is, should be referred to using capitalized letters, such as "He", "Him", and "You". However, I wouldn't go as far to say it's grammatically incorrect to use lowercase lettering when referencing him, I mean, generally, I use lowercase letters if using wordings like "he", "him" or "you", but I do capitalize "God", "Lord", or "Jesus". God is AWESOME and he should get recognition for it! However, it's not a sin to not capitalize his propositions. -- ImperiexSeed, 8:56 PM, November 29th 2012

Ok, this will be bloody, but I don't care. It's not correct or uncorrect to not or to capitalized a pronoun that refers to God. Only direct ones like Lord is capitalized when refered to God or a lord. But, ex. (God is all powerful, he isn't killiable.) That is correct, But at the same time ( God is omniscient, He know all things.) This is correct too. It up to the writers own choice to capitalize all, some, or none of proper nouns like He, Him, when refering to God. But, it look more respectful to all people, when only titles of religionish icons are capitalized, such as God, Lord, Master etc.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 03:29, November 30, 2012 (UTC)

Alright Twilight, I can accept that. I appreciate you giving me a legitimate reason as to why you feel the way you do, rather than just undoing my edit. The next question is, should all instances of "He", "Him", etc on the wiki be made lower case? SilverRain (talk) 04:05, November 30, 2012 (UTC)

I am just stating facts and I haven't lowercased any pronouns that refer to God here.... to my knowledge. It just depends on the person really. Like I don't know if yall should lowercase all He and Him type of pronouns. But here are some examples. You see even in the verses it's (him,his,he) is not often capitalize.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 04:47, November 30, 2012 (UTC)

1. John 3:16: For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
2. Jer 29:11: For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
3. Rom 8:28: And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

Like the words Son and Lord are captialize as Lord refers to God and Son refers to the title toward Jesus as the SON of God. OFTEN not alway are just title pronouns in caps.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 04:50, November 30, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry I'm late. Anyway, after reading Calebchiam's post on forming the consensus--here is my final proposition on the matter. True, as Twilight Despair pointed out, not even the Bible is consistent on capitalizing the pronouns. I agree with that. However, I propose that God and all of his titles, including 'Master' be capitalized. My reasons are as follows:

• We have always capitalized titles, at least the formal ones--King of Hell and King of Crossroads are the two best examples. If Crowley can have that honor, all the more God.
• We have a canon reference of another character (a pagan deity, in fact) emphasizing the capitalization of God's name. Hence, like Plutus, regardless of your views, it must be accepted that the Judeo-Christian God (even if fictionalized) has a right to capitalized titles.
• 'Master' is a title no different from other titles possessed by God. It was also written as a personal note, and therefore a personal opinion, of an archangel. Thus, if meant to be used as a title, or as a verbatim from Metatron, it should be capitalized (i.e., The Master, -OR- 'Metatron wrote, "My Master has..."'). However, if used in a neutral narrative sense, I suppose it could remain simply as 'master' (i.e., his master, he describes his master as). FTWinchester (talk) 15:06, December 5, 2012 (UTC)

for goodness sake just take off the capitals  from  god, it  will only cause a fight. also in religion belief its blasphmous, is the real God in the show?? no, so keep it uncapiltalized,  its not the real God. its just fiction and to stop these debatesManga-anime90001 (talk) 11:47, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

No. It is clear cut that there are gods in the show, and there is THE God. Plutus's statement during the auction pretty much ends this debate. The only conflict here is whether the pronouns referring to God should be capitalized. FTWinchester (talk) 16:44, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

On this wiki, he is a fictional character, no proof he actually exists apart from books of uncertain origin taken for granted and blind-faith or cryptic, ignorant twisting of words.

In my country, the UK , christianity has diminished in the last century more so than in any country by far, I was raised with the bible taught as the latest in a series of mythologies, and that god and jesus, angels, demons, is purley mythology, a primative way way of explaining the universe in a very contradictory, hypocritic way, and I see 'god', as a very similar figure to odin and zeus, people living there lives in tune with rules, ignoring the free will factor that makes humanity unique.

I'm sorry if this annoys believers, but god is not important to me, and on this wiki at least, universal acceptance through equality of all faiths should be observed, not giving anyones panatheon priority over the other, therefore wording of any character within the series should be worded however possible, there is no rule againstt it anyway, but there is rule against killing, something christians and 'god' ignore all too well, thank you.

Princepurple (talk) 10:24, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

mystery of metatron

I am very confused about Metatron, now first off I do recall that in the Bible, the Seraphim although in the constant company of god, they could not look at him, this may apply to Metatron with god.

I was wondering In the season final of season 5, Michael seemed very eager to complete his destiny and angrily stated to dean "you are no longer part of the story", I have to think, was it not confirmed that Metatron was he writer of the Tablets, such as the Leviathan and demon one and most probably the angel one aswell?

Perhaps the 'story' Michael refers to is the one scribed by His Brother Metatron, and I believe that Metatron will be in God's presence, possibly taking the role of the 'blind scribe' and god won't be far from him.

I think there is a link between prophets and Metatron, since he is the scribe and they are the readers of his work, But I am leading to think he is older than Michael, perhaps the angel alpha, but I think he has not appeared due to him needing to be close to god, but that would make Michael gods General and Champion, Lucifer his most perfect specimen, Rapheal as protector of prohets and Gabriel, though not comfirmed, as his greatest messenger with Metatron as Scribe.

But I certainly do not believe Naomi to be Metatron, But I think He may make an appearence to help with the tablets, he notes to the prohets afterall.

94.0.33.236 14:05, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

Dude, talk page, not forum. Darksusanoo (talk) 14:08, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

Gun....wtf?!

My, my, my. Why in the blazes is The Archangel Metatron holding a firearm?! =/ Like, really? This, to me, signifies that Archangels themselves have a Grace, and he, Metatron, lost his. I always thought Archangels didn't possess Graces, and that their powers were fully innate. But due to the fact that Metatron is holding an F'ing gun, it seems to indicate that he is, somehow, depowered. YES - depowered! This concept, here, is simply interpretive by the fact that Fallen Archangel Lucifer retained his powers after his fall. -- ImperiexSeed, 4:37 PM, April 30th 2013

Not to mention Gabriel, but before we jump to conclusions, its possible he's simply pretending not to be Metatron, perhaphs he's acting like an ordianary person to fool others so they don't realise he is Metatron. Why he would do this I don't know, perhaphs he's unaware of whats happened, and is hiding from his brothers and heaven, much like Gabriel did. General MGD 109 (talk) 20:48, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

I always, thought all angels had graces. That just, most angel like Uriel, Anna, Castiel before his upgrades receive extra energy and powers from Heaven. While, angels like the Archangel's have all these powers plus greatly levels of strength innately built into their grace, even without being connected to Heaven.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 21:38, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

That, it definitely possesses a degree of plausibility. But The Archangel Gabriel delibertly fell, while Lucifer was "kicked" or "booted." We'll just have to wait and see. Thanks for the clarification. -- ImperiexSeed, 4:55 PM, April 30th 2013

It is now revealed that Metatron was no archangel. What we have to consider is that he has information no other angel ever had - he wrote the tablet about angels (and also demons, leviathans and who knows what else). That means he was granted knowledge no other being other than God (and possilbly Death) had access to. It may or may not be contained in the tablet, but it is possible that this knowledge included how to shut down his grace and seem to everyone as an ordinary human. The fact that he was able to remove Crowley's angel warding is also a hint for this - he had knowledge of how to do that. Another theory is that he was granted a bit of the power Castiel had when he was loaded up with souls from Purgatory - maybe he harvested souls. Anyway it seems to me that he knew the intruders in his room were but humans, and therefore only the firearm. I've also noticed he has much more compassion and empathy than an average angel (or probably any other angel other than Castiel and Joshua) - he seemed really put down when he learned about Kevin's tale and was eager to help him. This is probably because of all the human literature he'd read - he learned to feel like a human. -- 78.128.181.75 01:14, May 4, 2013 (UTC)

White Light

None editing information. Certain angels can use a light based power. Now, some believe than an Angel's use of light based attacks are just a release of a part of their true form. As Ex. Naomi's eye's and body starts to glow when she wants to release it. Raphael didn't but, he was still far more powerful than upgraded Cass before the 50,000 souls loan so a small bit from one of his hands, would be all he needed. As to how certain demons can use what Sam says a "Demon Ray Gun I cannot comment as, demon's true forms are smoke or ulgy to those that can truly see them. As when Metraton saved Kevin Tran. It could have been his true form, or part of it, or he could have use the same type of power differently. As even though he isn't really an Archangel and basically said he was just given an Archangel's job, he is still connected to the Tablets and the Prophet. As, if he is anything of an Archangel whether a true one, or a psuedo Archangel.

He is still connected to a Prophet, as Cass said Archangel's are linked to certain Prophets. This just some information, on the subject, and I am not gonna add anything, to any articles. As it's little more than sepeculation.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 18:17, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

What.. No, there's a distinguishable descrepancy between the recognization of an Angel's true form and the attack, 'Holy White Light.' Phisologically, Angels' true forms can cause severe chaos in the material realm, while Holy White Light has to be cognitively executed. Metatron did not use Holy White Light, he revealed an area of his true form, which sizzled the flesh of Crowley's vessel's bones. -- ImperiexSeed, 2:27 PM, May 2nd 2013

I said I wasn't going to add what I previous said, to any articles. But, there is much information, that a Angel's use of Light is just a part or extension of their true form.  You cannot just say that their two separate powers with 100 percent assurance, as I cannot say with a 100 assurance that they aren't separate powers, without sounding bias.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 18:40, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

Also, there is no need to think, that everytime someone slightly disagrees with you, is a personal attack.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 18:43, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

Destructive White Light - Similar to Lilith's ability in depiction, however comes with the blue tinge that represents angelic presence, suggesting this is an extension of the Angel's true form. When Castiel used this power, he ordered the humans to "Shut your eyes!" as Anna did when she regained her true form, destroying Alastair's host. The light is powerful enough to kill a diner full of Eve's "perfect creations" the Jefferson Starships in 6.19 Mommy Dearest. This may have been what the Sherriff witnessed Raphael using on demons at a gas station in 5.03 Free to Be You and Me. Naomi later used this in 8.19 Taxi Driver to try to smite Crowley forcing him to flee before she could.

http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=Angel_Lore

You, mistakebly, say it's an extension of their true form - which, AT LEAST for demons, is incorrect. The true form of a demon is a cloud of smoke, and Lilith's White light - it's white. Black air folicles, and White; there's no correlation. Unless we're going by their mishapen forms. There's definitely a difference between Holy White Light and the exposed Angelic form. -- ImperiexSeed, 2:54 PM, May 2nd 2013

As to how certain demons can use what Sam says a "Demon Ray Gun" I cannot comment as, demon's true forms are smoke or ulgy to those that can truly see them. That is what I said.  I never said that their power is an extension, as I said no comment. ( The last bit of demon forms is canon facts as they are either in smoke from, or to those that can see the faces of demons, many have said they are ulgy. ) And, I will not debate this, as you seem to think, that what you say is fact and what other's say is speculation or mistaken. I said, I couldn't with a 100% assurance say that an Angel's Holy Light is just an part or extension. The link, for the Destructive White Light isn't what I wrote, but what someone on the Super-wiki version of this one did.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 19:10, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

Hey, you started this particular debate! I merely hopped in, ok? Let us just drop it. -- ImperiexSeed, 4:22 PM, May 2nd 2013

That bastard has now officially welcomed chaos by causing all the angels to fall69.120.77.192 10:29, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

I don't know if it's just me, but looking back at the scene where Metatron rescued Kevin from Crowley, Kevin's eyes glowed white--the same color as angels when they use their white light (i.e., Naomi, and in Castiel's instance--bluish-white). Did Metatron channel himself to the prophet? Did he possess the prophet? FTWinchester (talk) 02:03, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Interesting observation....but no, I do not think Metatron was channeling/possessing the prophet. It was his being most likely reflecting off of Kevin's eyes. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:16 PM, July 22nd 2013

But aren't mortals' eyes supposed to burn out if they catch so much as a glimpse of an angel's true form? This occurrence has never happened before, if memory serves. FTWinchester (talk) 02:55, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Main Villain of Season 9?

Anybody get the feeling that during entirety of Season 9, Metatron's gonna be the main villain? Il fantasma dell'uomovive oltre la tomba 21:24, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Pretty much, personally I think its going to be a duel villainy between Abaddon and Metatron, starting off focusing more on Abaddon and then mid season shifting to focus more on Metatron. Then at the end of the season one of them will die (I kind of hoping it will be Metatron, but it might be Abaddon, especially if they can't keep her awe for another season) and then the surviour will be the main anatagonist of the last season. Or perhaphs main antagonist will kill them and take over next season. And for all of those out there asking what can metatron do, don't forget as he's alone in Heaven, he's got access to all there weapons. General MGD 109 (talk) 21:48, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

If they drag Metatron and/or Abaddon and their respective arcs all the way up to Season 10, that would seem flat and uninteresting. FTWinchester (talk) 00:06, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

The main villain? Probably, anything else would totally contradict the very message in Season 8's finale. Abaddon would tear Metatron's vessel apart, leaving it to rot in the abyss. Just saying. If Lucifer is really returning, there is no arc, there is no episodes, and there is no show. -- ImperiexSeed, 1:51 PM, October 15th 2013

Unless Abaddon's trying to spring him and they have to stop him returning. General MGD 109 (talk) 18:17, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

But that would be a rehash of Season 4 and even 5, wouldn't it? FTWinchester (talk) 00:47, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, dear. There is something that was said on Metatron that I, truly, don't get. An editor, at some time, posted, "[he] is able to use them all despite leaving Heaven for a long time, similar to seraphim and archangels." Any Angel, even a lower than low tier Angel like Joshua, could theoretically exist on Earth for 90 millennia and not lose his powers. So, it's not much of a feat that Metatron can still use his powers. They only lose their powers if they are "kicked" out of Heaven, and Metatron left on his own. -- ImperiexSeed, 2:46 PM, November 22nd 2013

Well, if they are trying to make Metatron and/or Abaddon to be a Big Bad Ensemble all the way up to season 10, at least make Metatron really interesting and unique. I know he's the scribe and he knows a lot, but I'm thinking a bit of a significant difference in powers and abilities. We already had a Big Bad that did not rely too much on brute force, instead relying on his craftiness (Crowley), but I think he got less and less intimidating as time went by. I mean, sure, he was still interesting in a different way (by becoming more and more human), but as an opposing force, he did not remain as threatening as Abaddon was, just like what Sam said in Slumber Party. FTWinchester (talk) 08:23, November 23, 2013 (UTC)

Super-Strength?

Even though he hasn't shown it, could Metatron have super strength? Especially after his upgrade in power? Would he be any match for Dean with the The First Blade/Mark of Cain or does that only offer immunity to demon powers?
EDN1980 (talk) 02:50, May 17, 2014 (UTC)

The powers and abilities section on characters' pages is generally for abilities they've actually demonstrated, but it is sometimes acceptable to add abilities that they're suggested to have or an all-around, biological trait. I'd wait on that to see for what he uses his super-strength, if he demonstrates it at all. With how Carver writes, it's almost indiscernible what he's going to do and where. So a question like that is really unknowable till explicitly shown. But, I will say that the blade, through the mark, should only grant him the oomph to accomplish the task of killing a Knight. -- ImperiexSeed, 11:43 PM, May 16th 2014

vs amped castiel

Do you think the amped up metatron was weaker than, as powerful, or more powerful than amped up castiel???

Princepurple (talk) 10:17, May 27, 2014 (UTC)

Metatron described the angel tablet to be the most powerful weapon, so there's that. However, in terms of displayed (and therefore observable canon) abilities, Godstiel appeared to be more powerful, needing the threat of Death itself to be neutralized. Metatron playing God did not even pique Death's interest, who is such a stickler for the natural order. Also note Raphael's line "If anyone is going to be the new God, it's me." This is about the Purgatory souls' power that could enable anyone to become the new God--even Crowley, a mere demon. Then again, this era's ridiculous retcons make things more difficult to discuss. FTWinchester (talk) 12:21, May 27, 2014 (UTC)

Castiel with all the souls of Purgatory would win. He was immune to every angelic-based weakness, while the scribe, even powered by the angel tablet, was still technically affected by angel-warding sigils, that's why he had to erase them. And plus, Castiel with all the souls of Purgatory could just apport the angel tablet to him, reducing Metatron back to your average, "run of the mill angel." -- ImperiexSeed, 10:46 AM, May 27th 2014

Metatron's current state

You know, while I wanted Metatron to die before, after seeing him tonight I agree with Cas: he's no threat and its better off just leaving him to live out his life as a human. He's too pathetic to kill now honestly and they might have need of him again in the future. Also, he hid the Demon Tablet under his mattress??? That shows just how pathetic he really is given how resourceful he was before.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 09:55, November 12, 2015 (UTC)

Does anybody else think that the guy Bobby is freeing out of  "his" heaven looks a lot like Metatron 

here is  a viedo  I mean the guy at 3:19 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P84hHiOqJsI

Fallen

Um, fallen? When did Metatron become a fallen angel? He was never cast out, he left. He went from angel to human. Not fallen. Kajune (talk) 12:53, April 3, 2016 (UTC)

Check the description of category, Castiel also didn't fall but left Heaven with his own will, that makes him a fallen angel. SeraphLucifer (talk) 13:46, April 3, 2016 (UTC)SeraphLucifer

Metatron's death

Gotta admit, I didn't see that one coming, Metatron sacrificing himself like that. At least he redeemed himself in the end at least a bit for his evils. Don't know why he thought the angel banishing sigil would work on her rather than some other spell he knows of but it was good he at least tried so as to buy Sam time to get away. I really think that in the end he found a measure of redemption and that being human changed him for the better.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 05:46, May 12, 2016 (UTC)

Saw someone comment that we didn't see him die. Amara imploded him. He ain't coming back from that, especially not when he's human.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 06:44, May 12, 2016 (UTC)

He's definitely dead; Amara erased him from existence. -- Thescarypea, 3:58 AM, May 12th 2016

• No, she imploded him. If he was erased from existence he wouldn't have ever existed in the first place.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 08:01, May 12, 2016 (UTC)

No, she didn't implode him, as he didn't explode or anything. She literally, like, uncreated him piece-by-piece. Now everything he did since God created him still happened, but she erased him, but that doesn't undo anything he's done. -- Thescarypea, 4:06 AM, May 12th 2016

• Its implosion not explosion. When something implodes it basically collapses in on itself until its nothing. Here's the Wikipedia definition: "Implosion is a process in which objects are destroyed by collapsing (or being squeezed in) on themselves."--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 08:12, May 12, 2016 (UTC)

In any case, he's dead. And, I have to admit, I, too, didn't see him redeeming himself. -- Thescarypea, 4:25 AM, May 12th 2016

I changed his status to deceased, he was confirmed dead by Curtis Armstrong via Twitter.

• Didn't really need that confirmation but good.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 14:37, May 12, 2016 (UTC)