Castiel being an Antagonist[]
How could Castiel possibly be an antagonist for this episode? A portion of Castiel's plan is present in this episode, in that he's trying to incorporate souls to use to exclaim freedom of Heaven, but his intentions were good. The real antagonist is Atropos. However, I could certainly see one taking that stance she was just trying to clean up his mess. -- ImperiexSeed, 8:39 PM, September 23rd 2012
I agree. Cass wasn't the antagonist, he was just a kid getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar. And while Atropos was just cleaning up the mess, and did have the moral high-ground, she was still killing people violently and being very vindictive and spiteful about it. That counts as antagonistic in my book. Damaijin (talk) 19:42, November 10, 2012 (UTC)
There's No Escaping It...[]
There are two points made in the Continuity section that I would like to address:
- Although the previous time travel episodes "In The Beginning" and "The Song Remains the Same" centered on characters' attempts to change the past, this is the first episode in which they actually succeed.
- Despite Castiel's claims to Dean in "In The Beginning" that the past couldn't be changed, he instigated the events of this episode's plot by ordering Balthazar to unsink the Titanic. This shows how his belief in destiny has changed since meeting the Winchesters and helping averted the Apocalypse.
These are wrong, especially the first one. Yes, Balthazar did change the past when he saved the Titanic, but the fact that he went back and ultimately re-sank it means that he didn't change anything at all. (Destiny's a b*tch like that, lol)
Unless someone can offer up a decent argument for these points by tomorrow, I'm going to go ahead and erase the first point. As for the second, I'll just rephrase it, because I think the effect the Winchesters have had on Cass's life-views is very poignant. Damaijin (talk) 20:05, November 10, 2012 (UTC)
- Person who wrote both bullet points here. Well, my point for the first thing was that he did change the past and that's the first time we've actually seen it happen on this show. He changed it back afterwards, but the point remains: the past was changed and it affected the present. I thought that was notable. As for the second thing, sure, feel free to edit it. :)--68.202.251.151 21:42, November 10, 2012 (UTC)
What I'm saying is that because Balthazar re-sank the Titanic, the past was not changed. Anything and everything that happened in the "My Heart Will Go On" timeline never happened. Only the memories of it remained, and only because Cass made it so the brothers could remember. I guess I'm just pointing to the bottom line of the episode: Balthazar didn't succeed in changing the past because when all was said and done, the Titanic still ended up sinking. What this episode offered was a standard "what-if?" alternate reality plot, and there have been several of those already. Damaijin (talk) 00:34, November 11, 2012 (UTC)